Not every religion can be right? Feat. Mark Crooks

In a world inundated with religions, are they all right? Or is there one that is right? In this conversation we talk about the exclusivity of truth, the framework used for discerning what is true and more...

0:00 - Intro
1:18 - Not every religion can be right?
1:48 - A framework
2:34 - What and why
4:44 - Is truth exclusive
7:56 - Do major religions affirm that they can all be true?
12:01 - How do we know which religion is true?
15:04 - Why Jehovah witnesses are wrong
15:46 - A parable
17:08 - Conclusion

Music by
Over the limits
Vernacolmusic

Transcript

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Wildfire podcast is an extension of Wildfire, which has a focus of igniting men and women of God into a deeper discipleship with Christ, instilling people with a passion to radically and relentlessly pursue Christ wherever that leads.

That God's truth will spread like a wildfire.

Mate, you just missed the most intense ride of my life.

Like, Maddie fell, and then I gave a three shout out, and then flipped him over, and then Baby princess Peach overtook me.

She had a boost, I had a grace in my back pocket, and then the line's like right there, like chucked in, and she like just flipped over me as I fight him for first.

yes!

Hi everyone, so welcome back to another candid conversation.

I am joined once more by Mr.

Mark Crooks.

Once again.

What an absolute privilege.

This is twice now.

I feel like that.

I think I'm losing my voice.

It's great, it's good to have conversations, it's just to learn from each other.

Yeah, so the conversation I want to talk candidly and openly about is not every religion can be right?

question mark.

You know what I mean?

That's not a statement.

Not every religion can be right.

That's a question mark that we're going to discuss, okay?

And then we'll form our statements and our conclusions at the end.

But the first thing I want to jump in and give an initial framework, which I've talked to you about, I can hear your initial thoughts on that, is whenever we come to any sort of religion, the framework that we should apply is origin, meaning, morality, and destiny.

And all of these things must have consistency and coherency.

So what's the origin of the religion, the meaning of the religion, the morality of the religion, and the destiny of the religion?

And do those things consistently and coherently work together?

And so if you apply that to Judaism, to Islam, to Buddhism, to Hinduism, to Christianity, and you apply that same framework, and you look at the origin, you look at the meaning, etc., and those consistently and coherently apply, you will find which one that is, okay?

Spoilers, Christianity.

Okay?

So that's the initial framework that we're going to lead with.

So everyone has what they believe and why they believe it.

What do you think on that?

I think today, a lot of people search for, hey, your truth, let it be your truth.

My truth, it will be my truth, right?

And truth is the loss, the sense of absolute, and it's become more positive framework of opinion, experience, background, culture, diversity, and it's how you view it.

And when it comes to religion, it has become, it hasn't become an absolute.

And I think it's strange to look out of worlds, in the world we live in today, for dealing with how many centuries.

The percentage of this world that do believe in a higher power, whatever the religion is, compared to the percentage of people that don't.

And I think even just looking at that perspective, challenges you to think, is there something bigger than me?

Right?

And therefore, when we're talking about religion, you can't just say, well, let your truth be your truth.

Because it's more profound than that.

It's steeper than that, and it carries a lot more weight.

So, there is a question of absolute truth.

So the question is, what is the absolute truth?

regardless of our opinion of it.

Yeah, exactly.

Everyone has what they believe.

There's not a single person that doesn't, from the youngest age to the oldest age, you've got what you believe, but you've also got the why you believe it.

And so, the what is simply what you're standing on.

And the why is how credible is the thing that you're standing on.

And so, if you say, what I believe is Islam, okay, that's what you're standing on.

Let's see how sure that foundation actually is.

And we talked about the framework that you can use to see whether that is true or not.

And I think that is important whenever you come to these conversations.

You want to take each religion in and of itself and the what the people believe.

And you don't need to focus on the what so much, it's the why.

What is it that you're standing on?

And why is that strong or why is that weak?

So thirdly, is truth exclusive or is truth inclusive?

So you sort of already talked about that, this idea of absolute truth, et cetera.

But many people do say that truth is not objective, it's subjective.

But do you think, and thus it's then inclusive, everyone can be involved regardless.

Is that Christianity?

It's all truth.

If it's your truth, it's all truth.

It's all subjective and inclusive.

Or is truth exclusive in the sense that there is an objective truth that simply isolates certain thoughts, certain truths that people proclaim?

Yeah, you can't have that.

Take the example of a court room.

We had a justice system that was based on a truth that stood on opinions, experience, the movement of justice, right?

Because then for anyone that stands on the truth, because it's their truth.

And truth needs to stand firm and separate from the experience, from the motion, from the back line, because it needs to stand alone.

Because quite often we think that we hold truth up, right?

But the reality is we need to stand on truth.

I don't know if that imagery makes sense, but it's the idea of truth should remain.

Sticking with a court room analogy, it carries out justice, just the importance of having an absolute truth, because it shapes and constructs the society we live in, how we interact with people and how we engage with people.

Unfortunately, we take things of differences and put up defenses and opposition, and we create ourselves enemies, and whatever structure you want to look at, whether it's politics or economics or tribalism or nationalism.

But the reality is, we need to learn how to engage with differences and still remain open to understanding.

I think when it comes to religion, it's not the response of that's wrong or it's don't defend, it's to explore, to understand that we're actually all humans trying to get through life, make the most of it.

And that's why it's important to wrestle with this thing called the truth to not be complacent and passive on what gets you through the day.

Because that's all the truth is seeking for.

Yeah.

Yeah, totally.

And it's this idea that, say, for example, I'm a human and I say that I think humans need oxygen to survive.

And then you come up and say, I think humans don't need oxygen to survive.

Truth is objective and it is exclusive.

That is to say that it will exclude your thought and it will include my thought.

Okay.

Truth just doesn't come along and say, yeah, you're right and you're right.

That just changes the whole nature of truth.

So there is this idea of an absolute truth.

And the Bible says that that truth is a person and that person is jesus.

Yeah.

So again, following up on that, question four is do major religions affirm that they can all be true?

Like does Islam say, yeah, Christianity can be true and Judaism says that Christianity can be can be true.

Hinduism says, Buddhism can be true.

Buddhism says, Islam can be true.

Do all the religions each say that truth is inclusive or do the religions themselves say, no, we are true in ourselves and all these other ones can't be true?

I think the commonalities within religion do reveal to us of a common truth, right?

The fact all of these religions seek the idea of the higher power, seeking the idea of that there is an afterlife, that there's purpose and meaning to this life that we are created for a reason, right?

Seeing those commonalities and drawing them up, you kind of think, okay, there's something to point them to, right?

Looking at religions of these beautiful religions, the practice discipline and trying to better oneself to then gain an entrance into a paradise, it's a beautiful philosophy and beautiful way of living.

You look at the Abrahamic religions, including Christianity, Judaism and Islam, stemming in the west and rooted deep in the Old testament.

It is looking at the idea of how they journey with being created by God and then seeking a relationship with God, but then hardly gain access to God and hardly gain access to that paradise.

But in looking at all of this, it just raises the question, what's God to me, or who am I to God?

That's when Christianity, in my opinion, takes a turn, because for the first time, I'm not loved based on what I do.

I'm loved based on who's loving me.

I'm not about...

It's not about me at all.

It's the first time God steps into humanity.

John 1, 14.

The word became flesh.

God, creator of the universe, put on skin and bone and dwelled among his people, moved into the neighborhood to be with us.

It's nearly the point, hitting home the point, that we couldn't get to God, so God came to us.

So the commonality, there must be a higher power.

There must be a meaning and purpose to this life.

But the separation is that God came to us, not that we have to seek God.

Yeah, so you're saying that each religion has facets of truth, but not the totality.

Whereas Christianity, that is the absolute and objective, exclusive truth, that by definition excludes these other religions, in the sense of what they propagate negatively.

And those other religions that are wrong, have elements of truth within them, that point towards this absolute truth that is God, God incarnate, who came to man, not man, who had to go to God.

And again, all religions just simply can't be true, because if you look at Buddhism, they have new God.

Hinduism, they have many gods.

Judaism has Yahweh.

Islam has Allah, and Christianity has the Trinity, with reference to salvation.

Buddhism has enlightenment.

Hinduism has reincarnation.

Judaism has the law.

Islam has the five pillars.

And Christianity has grace.

And then there is Buddhism.

They believe in the true way.

Hinduism think that all are true.

Judaism thinks that just Judaism is true.

Islam thinks that just Islam is true.

And Christianity thinks that just Christianity is true.

So is all religions right?

The answer is fundamentally no.

And that coincides with this idea that truth is exclusive.

So then finally, how do we discern what is true and what is not?

So knowing that there is this absolute truth, and knowing that all religions cannot be true, how do we know that they are true?

And I've already mentioned the framework of origin, meaning, morality and destiny as the starting point.

And now I'm bringing this back.

What do you think are other tools that can help us understand what religion is right and what religion is not?

I know that there's different epistemological views, philosophy, history, science, experience.

They can all attest to what is the one truth.

But do you have any thoughts on that?

I think there's two ways you can look at it.

Take for example, if you want to look at the Bible, see the history and the credibility of your source.

And again, I stepped on the toes of origin, right?

But I think another helpful framework would be to talk to people who know the religion, right?

If I want to know more about Islam, I can do my own research, yes.

But I could also ask someone practicing the Islamic faith, why do you believe what you believe?

Hopefully in turn, they ask me why I believe what I believe.

And you remove the barriers of opposing sides, and rather, we are two humans trying to get through life, believing there's purpose and meaning, and we're seeking truth.

Whether they, even if they don't believe in religion or higher power, it's a question of well, why?

And having that mindset of exploring and learning in the content of what they believe and from their understanding, their experiences and their teaching, it's nearly treating people as an expert in their fields, right?

An expert to how they came to the conclusion and having the mindset of exploring allows you to be discernment in terms of what's been consistent here, challenging each other, challenging yourself because ultimately truth stands.

I'll give another example in Acts when the apostles were brought in and it's Peter and the Sanhedrin, like ridiculing them, saying you can't preach this message, right?

Forgive me for forgetting this name, but one of the elders of the Sanhedrin court stands up and gives a testament of how we have seen false teachings before.

And those men have died, horrible deaths, and their teaching never lasted.

So be careful, and he said this to the council, be careful when you're challenging these men, because let them go, because if it's true, then you're fighting God, right?

And if it's wrong, they'll fall away, because ultimately God's word will last.

I think that's also a testament to what is truth.

Yeah, truth is something that is lasting and remains and stands at the test of time.

Yeah, and just practically on the ground, people are like, how can we do this then, knowing that there is this exclusive, absolute truth, knowing that there is this framework, knowing that all religions can't be true.

How then do I apply this whenever we look at Islam, or we look at Hinduism or Buddhism?

And I've plucked, for example, Jehovah's witnesses, that's this religion.

What do they believe and why do they believe?

So what's the credibility of what they're standing on?

And you can just pluck one aspect of that is, they believe that there is one God, Jehovah.

They believe that jesus is a God.

The Bible says that there is one God.

So now you have two gods, how do you resolve that?

So just within four questions, Jehovah's witnesses have apparent contradiction, where they've got two gods, and the Bible they believe in says that there is one God.

So that's an apparent contradiction that is resolved in the Trinity, for example.

So I want to just leave with a parable.

So get ready.

And the purpose of the parable is to be thought provoking, to be challenging.

You may not get it at first, but it's something that you can rewatch it, go back, think and meditate on.

And then the explanation that's going to be released later.

So it is this.

There was a man who desired to reach the destination that was called truth.

He stood by one of the many rivers that he thought could get him there.

One day he decided to jump into one of these rivers and travel down the perceived river that would lead him to truth.

However, when he explored further, the river bed began to produce holes and the water levels began to dissipate.

Soon the river was dry and the man who thought he was on the right journey to truth was now left in a state of asphyxiation, helplessness and confusion.

This cycle would be repeated.

despite his efforts, he could not attain the right way that would lead him to the place that was called truth.

He gave up all hope.

One day, while the man was sorrowful, a light illuminated another river.

So the man picked himself up and began another journey towards truth.

This time, the river bank was firm and impenetrable, and the river flow remained.

Finally, the man had reached the place that was called truth.

So that ends us for this kind of conversation, and we will see you on the next one.